Logic Pro 10.5
Logic Pro 10.5 . New features. Live loops. Quick Sampler. Multitrack recording in Logic. Using a DAW. Working in a studio running Sonar. Editing Podcasts and Radio with Adobe Audition. Never used ProTools.
Produced by Billy Newman and Marina Hansen
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147 Logic Pro 10.5 BNP mixdown v2
Hello, and thank you very much for listening to this episode, Billy Newman photo podcast recorded for May 26, 2020. How’s everybody doing today? I wanted to talk today about some stuff I’ve been doing this last week for the last few weeks. I’ve been talking about some outdoor stuff and some things related to the lockdown pandemic stuff, but I kind of change and change what I was talking about a little bit for this podcast. Still, I wanted to get into was some of the training stuff I’ve been looking into around Logic Pro 10.5 that has just come out recently. And I thought it’d be cool to go over a little bit of an overview of some of the new features and stuff that you can do with a digital audio workstation, and why to bother talking about it. But I think it was about a year ago or so. I was talking about setting up the studio in the house that I met here and getting a PC ready to go is an older one. I think like something from some desktop I had around from 2010 or 11 or so. Yeah, yeah, by that time. And I remember getting that computer set up with an I think it was like Windows 10 on it. And then I was using, and I think, the same audio interface USB out into the computer. And then I had downloaded I downloaded sonar, the new version of sonar that you can get for free. I think both cakewalk sonar had owned it. And then I think Gibson had bought out cakewalk. And so it became Gibson sonar, and then I think Gibson decided that wasn’t going to be part of their business anymore. So I think they just kind of shut it down, essentially, but then sold that off to band lab. COMM band lab is a, I think, a minor it’s another internet company. They have a simplified digital audio workstation app that you can use to create a demo or something like that. But what they’ve done is they’ve gone through, I guess, and have purchased probably for a relatively low price, or I don’t know, I assume since they’re just keeping it and kind of hardly maintaining, or you know, doing a bit to maintain it. But they took the sonar Platinum program, the full digital audio workstation, and the multi-tracking tool, and they made it free for people to use and get. But I think it’s only a Windows-only program. So you got to have got windows 10 to run it. So I did that. Yeah, and sonar was a program that I’d worked with before for doing some studio multitrack. And stuff, I think, years ago, probably around 2012 2013, when I was working with some friends to set up some studio equipment stuff, was cool. We had like a big sound craft ghost that was laid out. And then we had many channels kind of running into that from the microphones that we’re using to track this band. And then that all went into a pretty old computer was amazing what it could do, you know, for just it was probably like a two gigabyte of RAM. You know, smaller hard drive 2004 or five, six era PC computer probably would even be that much, right? There’s something about that time. But that’s what we used. Yeah, that’s like all we had with us. We had an, I think it was like a PreSonus audio interface. And then we got like, like an eight-channel audio interface. That was really cool. You know, we had like eight digital audio channels coming into the interface, which means we could track the live channels into sonar at a time. And it didn’t even pick up, you know, even on that old machine. And so it was interesting how that architecture works to do some editing stuff, but sonar is what I had been using before. For some stuff, really audition. Adobe Audition is what I’d use most for some of this kind of the more simple radio broadcast style stuff. And that’s what I had learned to use when I was at a radio station doing internship years and years ago, back in 2008. Right, in Summer 2008, they did that. And they use Adobe Audition version 1.52 to do all their radio production edits. And yeah, going in taking calls with the production guy, or somebody calling him to do like an I think they would do like a water level report is a radio that station now you can figure, but they would have like this. Suddenly, you know, it’s 1245. And here’s your local water level report for July 28 or something. And then it would be some lady that would call in from a department that would measure this stuff, and she would give her water report and the production guy you’d record it and then produce that then it’d be prepped to go out on air later. You know, it’s like a spot that a DJ would trigger upstairs, and so we kind of walk. You’re using audition to do those steps. And so learning that as a program was probably the first one that I’d done, we should probably go back to high school before that when I was doing editing stuff, but sonar back to sonar was some of the stuff that I’ve used. Probably a good bit more for the music, you know, like trying to track a band or do like multi-tracking projects. But so yeah, that’s what it used to be. That’s why I threw on 10 PC to do audio production stuff for this podcast workflow that I was trying to get into. And it’s cool. It works well. But I stopped using a computer A while ago, and I think the windows ten computer that I’m talking about had a power supply go bad, which could be replaced pretty easily and is on a to-do list. But since then, I’ve just been relying on the kind of like I’d mentioned, just recording, recording onto the device. And then using Adobe Audition to do the post-production work on my MacBook, which is kind of interesting. It’s just a more, it’s just a better workflow for the most part, so I’ve been kind of sticking with that. But recently, to get to the point, as you are all excited. Logic Pro 10.5 has come out with no logic. As yet to be mentioned in this podcast, Logic Pro is the program produced by Apple as their professional digital audio workstation. And so there’s GarageBand, which probably a lot of people have some experience with. And GarageBand is sort of the trimmed down simplified home user version of a program, like Logic Pro, and they’ve done that intentionally. I think it’s the same team that generates the two programs. And look at them, or you look at their interfaces, and you look at the types of access that you have to things, you do see a familiar similarity to it. Which is cool. So if you’ve used something like GarageBand in the past for home projects, you won’t have as big of a difficulty moving into a more professional digital audio workstation environment, like Logic Pro 10. So I think it was Logic Pro 10, just you know, 10, zero, came out wine or product 2013 or so I think that was sold for 200 bucks. So it was like a purchase price of 199. And then, since then, you get the point updates for free, or, you know, as included with your original purchase. So just recently, I think there’d been like 10.4 before this. And then now they’ve moved on to 10.5. And 10.5, I think, is probably the biggest, as noted by plenty of new sources, as noted as one of the most significant feature updates that logic has probably had in years and years. I mean, I think this is the first time that they’ve gone through and removed and updated some of those legacy items that have been in there since 2003, or four or five, you know, it was just some of these legacy products originally put in there as including their interfaces to it looks like a 2002 interface you then like there’s these synthesizer interfaces where weird knobs that you have to these weird just rotating features of the interface it looks like it looks ridiculous. I don’t know any other way to explain it. pretty wild for some of the stuff that’s just remained in systems for a long time. But for 10.5 to try to go through an update, a lot of that stuff. There’s a lot of cool new features in logic 10.5. So logic is real similar to sonar, which is, I guess, kind of why I mentioned it. At least through my experiences similar you guys are probably thinking similar to I know what people who are listening probably actually, some Well, no one’s listening. What am I saying? If someone were to bother to try to find some information out about logic, and they ended up listening to this podcast, they probably have had some information about it, or they would be covered an experience with Pro Tools and Pro Tools is like the industry standard for multi-tracking dos software. And I’ve never used it I’ve never opened Pro Tools I’ve never seen Pro Tools, you know, in its process at all. I don’t know I did a couple videos or something. But yeah, I have no I have no experience working in Pro Tools. And I don’t know I’m not a fan of avid software overall, you know, for Pro Tools, the avid system of video editing stuff either I’ve just ‘m not I’m not that interested in that kind of stuff that they put together. Really for price and stuff to it just seems over overdone a I’m pretty happy some of more available tools that are in the consumer computer market. I mean, I think it’s like 800 bucks or something still Abbott’s Pro Tools and I think that in the past it was just, you know, insane even more than that even Will you know, kind of proprietary back in the past, it was more difficult. Now I think m audio is a partner with Pro Tools. And so in the past, if you had Pro Tools, you have a lot of proprietary Pro Tools, audio interfaces that you had to use, if you wanted to set up your studio to work seamlessly with the Pro Tools software. Now, I think they’ve made a deal with M i O, which is sort of like a less expensive audio interface manufacturer, they’ve had like interfaces and microphones and, you know, they got like an array of I think they’ve got like some studio monitors, they’ve got some interfaces, they’ve got like keyboards is a big one that they’ve got. I’ve got a keyboard over here from them audio. And what did it Yeah, Mr. Yeah. They’re less expensive. They make Pro Tools, interfaces, which is cool. Now, so they’ve got a partnership with Pro Tools. And I think that they’ve been trying to make that more accessible to musicians, probably because it’s become a more competitive market with Pro. I think the industry standard stuff is I mean, it always seems more secure than it should be. It doesn’t seem like an absolute that Pro Tools should be the digital audio workstation of engineers across the world. Still, for whatever reason, it’s just kind of taken over and and as those people, you know, are still filling those positions. I think that’s, that’s just what’s taught in audio recording school. It’s like a standard, even though there are many other good, other good services and choices out there. I think I’ve seen sonar and logic title how to so I don’t know, they’re they’re competitive. And as I’ve been hearing more this there’s there’s produced music producers that are coming out saying, Oh, yeah, I do a lot of a lot of my work and in logic. There’s, you know, there’s a whole class of music producers that are logic-based producers or sonar-based producers are, and I seems to kind of rotate around every couple of years for for who’s doing water, you know, who wants to look cool. People that use Pro Tools, one of the cool probably a lot of them. So back to back to old Logic Pro 10.5. Here’s the good stuff. So Logic Pro 10.5 introduces live loops, this is one of the bigger feature updates that’s been seen in logic or an integrated digital audio workstation years, probably probably like 20 years or something I know, it’s all seem to be about the same where you just have, you just have a multitrack environment, that’s like a linear starts from zero time, and then ends at the end of your project, you know how to infinity let’s suggest but you Not till you’re you multiple minutes. And then in this, you have that multitrack view where you’re just kind of layering and stacking these different sections so that they’re they’re coming together. And so you can kind of visualize how those sounds are coming together. In opposition to that, I think there were programs like Ableton, which had non linear audio production development. And that’s kind of complicated to say, but I think it was a different way of visualizing the interface so that you could trigger loops in time in a measure or a bar. And those would trigger appropriately in that measure. And then when you had that setup of, you know, a couple of loops that would cycle through, you could trigger those on and off. And you can kind of create, create changes to whatever that that sound was. And then you could record that or send that out. That’s got it. That’s a that’s an incomplete way of explaining Ableton. But the idea in Logic Pro 10 here is they’re kind of merging those two environments. So you had them both available to you and your digital audio workstation stays works station space at any time. And so the live loops, representation that we get in logic, pro 10 is this grid of kind of chiclet-style buttons that you’ve become accustomed to seeing on an iPhone or something like that via this grid of buttons. And then in that you can drop drop in loops that you have. So these real instrument loops, and the loop library you have, you can bring those over and set those up and track locations, but you just have this block there. And the next that you can grab a different loop or a similar loop, and then drag that into the second block. And so what happens is that if you were to tab or click on that loop, you get a play button, and it would play that one loop through to the you know, to the end of the loop. And then if you were to trigger that stem of loops vertically, it would play all of the loops that you would set up in that vertical column simultaneously to play it in time with each other. And then you would create a new creative mix of music. It’s pretty cool. It’s a nice and fast way to kind of demo out ideas. And all this time you’re not recording these ideas necessarily. You’re just kind of playing them live, starting and stopping them live and then trying to come up with what sort of the the mix performance of how you’d want these stems to come together in a file production. And so it’s cool. You can have your drum track in there. Or you can have a couple of different variations of a drum track if you want to go between a different beat or a different velocity. Rhythm during the chorus section to the verse section to the bridge, you can kind of break those pieces up. Similarly, like if you go down next to like your bass loops, you could have, you know, a bass line that was started in the intro, and then change during the first verse, and then become, you know, some simplified refrain during the chorus. And then kind of change out again for the for the rest of it along with the lead along with you know, whatever else, or whatever the textures you want to add into your tracking, you can kind of have those laid out in these in these kind of square pads, like a drum pad sort of thing. And then as you trigger those sounds, or you can trigger horizontally to if you want the ideas, you can organize stems of things vertically that you can trigger, so you can go to those live. But if you want to mix that up, you can shut everything off, and then play those loops individually as they’ll play with each other to make new sounds. And so you can be creative and do a lot of interesting things, I think. I think it’d be pretty cool. Learning about what I did for training stuff is so right now, Apple has. I think, as mentioned earlier, the the Logic Pro 10.5 systems, or the software, is $199 to purchase. If you purchase Logic Pro 10, you get this update included at no cost, which is cool. But if you have yet to purchase logic, and you’re interested in trying out or trying to learn some stuff about this digital audio workstation versus others, or whatever it might be, they’ve got a 90 day free trial going on right now. So you can go to you can go get this and then try it for the next 90 days in full service and see if you like it. And so it’s worth it in that capacity. I think that’s kind of cool. What’s also cool is there are 70 gigabytes of sounds that you can get in a sound library to attach to your Logic Pro 10.5 software. And so with this, they’re all royalty free, all available to use loops and MIDI instruments and sampled instruments that you’re, you have access to create music with. So it’s cool. And it’s so much music and sound and audio and all these loops contained, that you have a ton of creative options available to you and right there. And that’s what’s cool is you get so you don’t start off with a dearth of an experience. Once you just get this audio software, it comes with 70 gigabytes of instruments of everything for you know bass, electric drums, organic drums, like any kind of percussive interest instrument, any kind of synthetic, or any kind of synthesizer sound that you want to try and get you can achieve with it is really cool. So you can take those and throw it in, you can do this 70 gigabyte download of data and throw that onto an external hard drive now, which is pretty cool. I think for a long time, they just had this integrated database where everything had to sit on your main drive. And I think that drove drove a lot of music producers crazy as they tried to have, you know, bigger libraries of loops and stuff. But it’s probably in part because hard drives weren’t fast enough back in the day for that sort of stuff. But now, you know, in the last many years since like Final Cut has had had video libraries on external drives, it seems like they should have made the capacity for for logic to have, have your loop library on an external drive a little easier. So I wanted to talk about the training stuff that I’ve been doing, I think I’d mentioned I had done a good bit of work with, you know, other programs in the past. But this is really the first time that I’ve gotten into spending time learning specifically about some of the features and the controls in Logic Pro. And now Logic Pro 10.5. So what I’ve done is gone to now what’s called LinkedIn learning. LinkedIn learning calm. There used to be a website called lynda.com. And lynda.com was these these screencast video tutorials of how to use different types of software and how to be trained and you know, just training for different types of most of the time computer-related skills. So I’ve used that service for a number of things over the years. So specifically, I think Chris or wigs Lightroom tutorial is probably like a standard for many photographers who have been interested in and learning about photography editing. And so all of those courses that have existed over the years have a lot of good information in them. But so I went back to, to what would be lynda.com now as it has been purchased by LinkedIn, through Microsoft, it’s now called LinkedIn learning. Right on Hmm. So LinkedIn learning has all of the old Lynda videos including all the updates to the videos that they’re continuing to produce. So I went on and I tried to find some training videos. About Logic Pro 10. There’s a number of videos for like Essential Training for Logic Pro 10. But there’s nothing because now this new update Logic Pro 10.5 is really only maybe two weeks old or something. It’s, there’s no, there’s just no new video training established for it. So I think for Logic Pro 10.4, there’s a full Essential Training Video that was produced by was a Scott Hirsch music producer out of New York. And he just kind of goes through the controls and the system and stuff and you get you get a good feel of like how to how to make changes, how to use different features, how to use the mixer versus like the linear tracking system, you know how to use different controls and stuff, a lot of this stuff is similar if you’ve used GarageBand, like I was mentioned, or another digital audio workstation that does multitrack in the past. But it was cool. Yeah, learning licks and techniques about how to apply different different compress, or how to make the settings of a compressor do more specifically, the types of things that I’m wanting to do in a mix, I think was some good information for me to be learning about through the Logic Pro training stuff. Also, in addition to that, if you don’t that, so LinkedIn learning is a paid service, you can get a one month free trial of that, too, which I’m taking advantage of at this moment to get to get some new information. But what you can do is go to YouTube and look up similar, similar training videos. And there’s a lot of people a lot of music producers out there that have done their own screencasts of kind of walking through different services or different techniques that these digital audio workstations provide. So looking at a guy, guys website, I think it was why Logic Pro rules calm, and that had a lot of good training videos on it, too. He had a lot of information about how different pieces of it work, and just how to how to make use of a lot of the techniques that you’d have to apply in a certain piece of the software to make it more effective. And I thought that was really cool, I really appreciated some of the stuff that he’d done. And because he’s a YouTube channel, he’s just kind of putting out content more regularly. So he has, I think, five videos up right now about these different features related to Logic Pro 10.5. So I think it’s like a general overview, there’s one specifically about the live loops feature that I was mentioning is is one of those premiere new new interface features, it’s now part of Logic Pro 10.5. In addition to that, I think they’ve created a step sequencer a new sampler; I think they have a quick sampler now, and they have a full sampler where you can go through and make your own samples to make your own loops. So you can really be producing your own music. And I think that’s I think it’s really cool, that kind of stuff that you can do. That’s a big update that they’ve done, I think they talk about, like, what is the s e s x 2427, something like that. It was this old sampler, this old the sampler software, there was probably some third party plugin that ended up being bought, and then ended up being integrated into logic, that speculation, but the way that it looks, it just doesn’t look like Apple it ever designed it. So it’s like, it’s this crazy looking kind of silver software with a ton of buttons and knobs instead of it looks like it was supposed to be some, some real object, you know, like, like if they made some, some actual pedalboard, you know, looks like a drum machine or something. But it’s laid out in as a software in front of you. And it’s just impossible, it seems to me to use so. So apples gone through and updated that, that kind of legacy piece. Some people are happy about it, some people are mad about it, I see some people writing in forums, long live, the ESX sampler. And then everybody are plenty of people saying they’re and they’re happy to see it go that they’re happy to see it replaced by a more modern piece of a more modern utility. So there’s a lot of cool features. And that’s to where you can you can really get into recording and making your own samples or taking a piece of music that you’ve already recorded. And having the sampler go through and auto select these regions of it. So you can go through with your like your keyboard, and you can trigger those regions with your keyboard to play that to play that sound out. It’s really fascinating, that kind of sampling that you can do with it. Gosh, I mean, there’s just so much production you can do with it. So as it goes for podcasting, I wonder if I’m gonna use logic i think i think logic really honestly, like most of the audio production stuff that I would do even to a small degree which me onyx OS got, it’s really nothing I could do this on my phone or not nothing on my phone is great, but just I’m not doing anything. Right. So. So I might, you know, I stopped using sonar because it was kind of overkill to do the multi tracking stuff. For just a podcast for some audio or mastering stuff. It seems like I have a grip of how to do the editing in logic, maybe a little better than I do in audition. Even though I’ve been using audition for years. I can’t have the same the same process and stuff, but there’s this Sort of a way that this is something I don’t understand yet. And if someone that actually understands logic as listening to any of this, they should tell me about it. But it seems like in audition, when you have an audio file, like a WAV loaded into the program, and you’re looking at it and editing, editing it, if you were to apply the EQ effect or compressor, once you have those settings, and then you apply it, it’ll render that change to the wave. And you have to wait for it, you have to wait like 20 seconds when you apply when you apply an effect, like a hard limiter, or compressor or a de Esser, and it’ll change the full waveform that you’re seeing there is in logic, it seems, I guess, more like a non destructive editor where you have your original waveform in your track. And then over in the mixer, you can apply sends, or you can apply these effects as a stack that you can turn on and off. And it’ll kind of live mix that section of audio that you’re hearing. So you can you can stack on a compressor first change those settings and stack on an EQ and then stack on a de Esser and then stack on a limiter or something at the end of that, or a limiter on your your master output something I don’t know, I think that’s how you’re supposed to do it. So you can do that. And then you can change those settings and you’re not really adapting the original waveform, you’re not doing you’re not doing that at a stage where if if you turn one on or one-off, that you’re you’re kind of rendering the whole file in advance. I don’t know if I have that totally right. But that’s something I’m trying to figure out. So some things that you notice from that is audition, or programs that kind of bake in the setting effect that you’re you’re making a change to seem to operate a lot faster I think is the track is sort of is sort of rendered and frozen, and is that the process is not having to do any live rendering of added effects on top of the file that’s already trying to have to have to grab that file and then play that file and then add another layer of digital processing to it that you selected through changing settings and then render those settings to the WAV file as it plays it without much latency. And it just sounds like a lot of tasks to do. So I guess when you have like a bigger logic project with 24 instrument tracks, all with compressors, and limiters and, and whatever other effects changes there are on it. I apparently, it’s just really processor intensive. And it I’ve already noticed, like even just with a few of the smaller demo projects that they have installed with it, and even with my computer being okay, it’s it’s already like hit like a CPU overload a few times and logic, logic producers have talked about this a ton of times, there’s a bunch of videos out there on like how to stop your CPU overload messages, some of its talking about changing your buffer size. So it’s talking about selecting tracks and freezing them. Or there’s a process called freezing and tracks sort of similar to what we just talked about with addition where you’re kind of baking in or rendering that track out so that the processor doesn’t have to worry about it anymore. And then from there on, you can just kind of mix on the single track that you’re you’re working on at that time. If you’re working on a multitrack project, you’d select the select the guitar, but then you can freeze all the drums so that whatever mix that they whatever mixed state they were in, the computer doesn’t have to worry about processing, it only worry about processing the live effects on that single guitar track in the sense that you’re you’re making changes to it’s cool. I don’t know the few different features and stuff you can do to it. And it’s interesting how all these these different digital audio workstation controls have come up over the years. I think like for this logic stuff, you know, this is what they’re trying to sell Mac Pros for I’m sure like even a Mac Mini would be a killer logic workstation for a studio. But But yeah, that like that new Mac Pro, that gnarly one with you know, 128 cores, I think one of the things that we’re trying to demonstrate with that is, you know, with, with a massive a massive amount of core and what is it probably like eight or 12 or something for the more standard one. I think that are the whole background of getting, you know, a ton of RAM and a ton of processor space and a ton of cores with to do some of these larger studio mixes of logic projects, you know, say if you have a symphony, or you have like a full orchestra or something that you’re trying to do a mix of, you have these live effects and compressors running on every track. And you could have up to, you know, 100 or 1000 tracks or something running with these live. These live effects they have to be processed on it. And so the idea was I heard this at other times that that larger studios would take would take Mac pros and run them in tandem, so that they would have as many tracks as that individual Mac Pro could have, and then that would be bust down. That’d be bust down into another mixer where they would have all of those. Is that making sense? Yeah, they would have let’s say like I would say 100 tracks would be on Mac Pro one. And then they would have 300 tracks in total. So they’d have Mac Pro two and three. And each of those would have 100 tracks that it was responsible for operating in logic, and then it would run in tandem, and then be mixed out to a bus. So you’d have all those tracks rendered down into the 300 onto their, their channels. And it’s it’s crazy stuff, but it’s kind of this like reduction process. They don’t need to do that anymore, apparently, because the as what they’re trying to sell, you know, these, the newer Mac pros, or if you max out a computer to its fullest, you can kind of handle some of these larger processor-intensive projects like that. In response to that, man, I remember in 2003, using cool Edit Pro to do 24, track multitrack projects on a computer with 800 megahertz, and I didn’t really have a problem with it. So I’m not really quite sure what I’m understanding about logic, or about audio production stuff in that in that capacity. Seems like there’s some other some other tools or other utilities around not tools, but just some of the concepts, right? That that allow you to do stuff without some of the limit some of the processor limitations. That’s always kind of frustrating when the technology kind of gets in there to fight with you. But But I’m sure that the intent of it is that you do more live processing, that means you have to, you have to do less rendering time on each individual track. And, man, the mixing process can be really frustrating if you have to render out a million different variations of changes, which is kind of different projects that I’ve gotten stuck in over the years. So I don’t know, we’ll see how it goes. But it’s cool. Yeah, been trying out Logic Pro 10.5 in the studio staff, learning some keyboard controls, learn how to run some live loops, but trying to mess around with some different mixes and stuff. It’s cool. Yeah, you just grab those loops there, I mean, I can make, what I’ve been trying to do is make like a drum bass and sort of texture sound loop that kind of has a couple changes in it. And then I can take a guitar, plug it into the audio interface set of facts that are built in to logic, you can pull up like a pedalboard and logic, and then have that adapt the sound of your incoming real instrument, and then run that into a track, or even just play a live into a track. And then have those live loops kind of running on the side of it. So you can kind of create like, you know, like a jam loop or something, you know, you don’t have a band to play with. So you can kind of create a couple other instruments that have pieces, and then that are going to key that are going to repeat. And then you can kind of find whatever it is in the guitar that you want to to kind of work out an idea are working on playing through something. So it’s kind of cool. I’ve been trying that out a bit too. And then once you do have an idea, it’s really easy to just kind of lay that down into a track and create a demo out of it. So it’s really fun. Logic Pro 10.5 you guys go check it out. Thanks a lot for listening to this episode of The Billy Newman photo podcast. I’ll probably be wrapping it up here today. Got a drink my coffee cup beautiful coffee, and I haven’t even really subsonic now it’s only lukewarm. So what am I going to do? I think I’m going to go from here, I’m going to suggest that you guys go to Billy Newman photo calm and check out the support page. I’ve been trying that trying that out. So Billy Newman photo comm forward-slash support, you’ll find something similar to the layout of a Patreon page there where you could if you found value in some of the the podcast information that I put out or some of the website stuff, some of the photos stuff that I’ve done, you can throw a couple bucks my way to whatever degree of value you found in it. If you found value in it, provided, that’d be great. I’d always appreciate it and you can do that at Billy Newman photo comm forward-slash support. What else is there? Probably some new stuff on the blogs and new new website stuff. Man, I don’t know probably back to doing some Logic Pro 10.5 stuff I need to go on a drive. I’m kind of itching to go out towards somewhere, somewhere toward the coast is what I’d like to do. But I don’t know really I want to get out to Eastern Oregon again. It’s may now like late May like Memorial Day was yesterday. And time is different 2020 what pretty cool stuff. Well, I’ll try and check in again on another podcast coming up soon. Send me some feedback if you want if you made it all the way to this part of the podcast, shoot me a message to the contact form on my website. always appreciated to hear that someone is has bothered to check out this podcast and until next time. My name is Billy. Thanks for listening